John Bryan 1672, a curious patent
This patent is not to be found in Nugent’s Cavaliers and Pioneers which caused some relief to my consternation and confusion when Jennifer from California found it by one of those horrid, tedious page by page searches. Several aspects of the patent and its subsequent re-patent 10 years later are becoming important for a better understanding of the immigrant John Bryant.
My theory of this guy assuming room temperature in 1680 is proving controversial and hard to swallow for my cohorts… and I am feverishly attempting to gather my notes and mount a defense … to “prove it, dammit”… so to speak. I get a kick out of this sort of thing…the bodies of deceased John Bryans are beginning to pile up (in my mind at least) so some ‘splainin’ is in order.
One important aspect of this patent of 1672 is that it relocates the immigrant from his lair at Indian Creek (since at least 1652) and moves him about eight mile or so southwest (and perhaps importantly) across the border from Nansemond to Isle of Wight. That is why so many records show up for this guy… otherwise he would have been hopelessly vaporized in the burned embers of the three Nansemond fires.
Also of import is the neighbor Thomas Mason…I am just beginning to figure him out.. I really can’t comment on him except to mention I have a “hunch” he married into the Bryant line. He shows up in too many deeds to be an idle bystander. He seems to be a contemporary of the old man… note that he received his 1000 acre patent in 1666… a few years before Bryan. Bryan will later begin to buy in to this land… as also will some descendants.
Below is the nitty gritty details of the two patents… again, finders credit to Jennifer Thornton.
Click the filename (in blue) under the image for a larger image to zoom…
The strange dotted line in the 1682 patent is just to draw attention to the errors present and in contrast to the original 1672 patent. There is just no way a “pretty” match is going to present itself on a map.
Now go back to the Post below this one and see if it might make more sense that a John Bryan died in 1680.
Note also that I mentioned a “testamentary deed”… my friend David Gammon turned me on to that term… likewise Traci the Librarian once scolded me (correctly so) for using the term “will” when I referred to a deed.
I noted in the prior Post that “a” John Bryan issued that “testamentary” deed to his son in 1725. It was written in the deed that the property did not become “owned” by the son until the death of his father and mother.
With that said, note the specifics of this deed of 1731:
Is it not clear to be seen that both the John Bryan (of 1725 deed AND his wife) are deceased by 1728… as is stated above when the son gave the land to his brother? The son could not dispose of the land unless his father was dead.
Now let me kill another John Bryan in 1710. At that date Needham Bryan “conveyed” 170 acres to James Nolliboy. (Needham’s brother John Bryan was involved… which just confuses the matter). The property being sold was noted in 1710 as “being formerly granted John Bryan Deced Bearing date …1682″.
This is where I get to eat some crow. Try as I might, I just cannot make a case for a John Bryan wedged in between one who died between 1680 and 1682 and his son who died in 1728.
Luckily I found instructions…
https://practicalselfreliance.com/eating-crow
This is critical to understand… if I am correct that the immigrant died in 1680… then the person being referred to here in 1682 is his son. And he is also dead as is referenced “part of a patten of 344 acres formerly granted John Bryan Deced Bearing date…1682″. If my reasoning is flawed, it is the fuzziness surrounding the patent of 1682… the old man could not have “devised” it in 1682 if he was dead in 1680.
Here is the smoking gun…
Well… at least we have successfully proven the demise of the immigrant. However…that just sounds downright weird.
___________________________________
an Update from GT of Bertie…
Actual proof concerning Ann Rombeau
https://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/01ddd/id/464321/rec/5
Marc, I will be following this with much interest. I research the Ballard and Boyt lines of Nansemond and much evidence including DNA show connections with Bryan/t starting with the Ballard indenture in 1659 Bristol by John Bryan to Virginia. John signed up John Ballard and Lewis Bryan from a small village south of Bristol called Bitton. I think the families were likely related in Bitton.
August 15, 1659 Agent, John Brian (aka John Bryant, Bryan and Bryant of Bitton).
Indentured at the same time was a Lewes Brian and John Ballard, both of Bitton.
This is what I have posted about the indenture: https://pbase.com/daveb/image/77351640
David Boyett
March 2, 2023 at 11:40 am
Based on the patent map above (Indian Creek), John Bryant and Lewis Bryant stayed in VA but no patents for John Ballard until he returns from England and get his patent for transport of his family and others in 1673. June 2, 1673 as reflected in the official Virginia Patent records. John BALLARD transported his wife Pasheba and two sons John and Joseph along with two others for 300 acres in Nansemond.
https://pbase.com/daveb/image/168014138
dboyett
March 2, 2023 at 12:32 pm
Mr. Boyett, have you seen any Quaker connection for said Ballard?
PogMoThointon
March 2, 2023 at 12:48 pm
No records for Ballard, but the Ballard’s and others in the Upper Parish of Nansemond accepted George Fox’s offer in violation of English Law for a Quaker preacher as they were unable to raise another 12,000 pounds of tobacco for a second preacher in a year. Described in the Vestry Book, their attorney was the young Thomas Jefferson. Maps show the locations of the Friend’s Churches in Nansemond. The Geoege Fox papers will have a list of names in Nansemond who he stayed with and supported him. George Fox was very popular in the Lower Parish, so you could say yes for a period of time, they were Quakers, but not long term. Having a Quaker Preacher was better than no preacher at all. Ballars’s went to the one near the bottom of the map.
https://pbase.com/daveb/image/44527961
dboyett
March 2, 2023 at 2:07 pm
In 1611 john bryan of bitton ,eng. died. he left his son john 13 pounds sterling-not to be given until the will administrator was convinced that john #2 was living the life of christian man. most think that he was a baby, but he was actually about 16. i have a copy of when he was born,retrieved from the bristol records service. he was a young man who enjoyed the pub and the ladies. he did quickly come to his better senses, found a nice girl to marry, and with 13 lbs. sterling came to america. he had 2 sons-john and robert. in 1652 john received the land ‘twix’ the iow and nansamond cos. being old for the time john needed more help and 7 yrs. later brought a robert (age 27) and lewis bryan as well as john ballard from bitton eng. the church there is built 0n a great hill and is beautiful-st. marys. built in 1200s and finished by the normans. every one wants to link this bryan family to edward. my dna is rb1. i’m getting old and don’t understand haplogroups etc.
richard bryan
June 22, 2023 at 9:43 am
Your comment is interesting on several levels…
I do have a Robert Bryan I cannot explain just across the Blackwater River in Nansemond… but the patent is dated 1724 (which seems late for your reference).
I would love to see any records you have to validate your claims… particularly any English documents.
marcanderson1951@gmail.com
anderson1951
June 22, 2023 at 10:07 am
Before I arise from my respectful kneeling position, humbly I thank and praise you and Mr. Gammon.
Jennifer
PogMoThointon
March 2, 2023 at 12:44 pm
http://www.virtualjamestown.org/indentures/search_indentures.html
Agent: John Brian
Aug 15, 1659 Lewes Brian of Bitton, Gloucestershire
Aug 15, 1659 John Ballard of Bitton
Aug 24, 1659 John Boulton of Bitton
15 Aug 1659 (p. 432)
following bound to John Brian, Planter, to serve in Virginia:
Lewes Brian of Bitton, Glos., yeoman
Robert Brian of Bitton, Glos.,
John Ballard of Bitton
—-Bristol Records Office
24 Aug 1659 (p.433)
John Boulton of Bitton, Glos., bound to John Brian, Planter, to serve 4 years in Virginia
—-Bristol Records Office
dboyett
March 2, 2023 at 1:09 pm
to anderson 1951- I know that robert was in nc by 1725 and had sold his property inVa. to his brother William, before leaving.
richard bryan
June 23, 2023 at 8:44 am
see map here:
Robert Bryan was south of the Blackwater at the IOW / Nansemond border
https://andersonnc.files.wordpress.com/2022/12/old-iow_southampton.pdf
What evidence do you have to support your claim he moved to NC?
anderson1951
June 23, 2023 at 2:38 pm
His son Elias was my 3rd great grandfather. His son was Capt. Elias Bryan in Chatham Co. Elias 2 was father of William Murphy Bryan, then Neill McKay Bryan,then My father William Murphy Bryan.
richard bryan
July 9, 2023 at 7:00 am
Richard, I am researching your line from Capt Elias Bryan tomorrow. What is your Kit Number? The R1b is an older YDNA result now known as R-M269 but is still like looking for a person in New York City, you will need an address. Your test can be upgraded to the advanced BigY to get that address. Is this the project that you are in fo your R1b results? Bryan YDNA Project?
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/bryan/default.aspx?section=yresults
I searched the page and could not find Elias Bryan as a most distant ancestor, however I did find a small group that could be what you described from Bitton. Is one of these kit numbers yours? The R-M269 would be the old R1b. The longer numbered ones (R-FT131181) are the advanced BigY result. This is the needed addrerss! The other YDNA12, 25, 37, 111 marker test will not provide the needed information. Did your son also take a YDNA test? If so what is his kit number?
R1b_A1A1A2A FGC79182 / Z17 / Z372 / Y38140 / S4037 / CTS8878 / S3315 / A14182
296 125666 Bryan Richard Bryan, b.1690 and d. 1748 KGCo.VA. R-M269
297 503923 Bryan Richard Bryant 1630-80 Bitton, to Va 1654 R-FT131181
298 227323 Bryan Sir Francis Bryan, b. 1630 d. 1694 Ireland R-M269
299 61987 Bryan David Anderson Bryan Ireland R-M269
300 545965 Bryan Edward Bryant, 1565-1630 Gloucestershire R-FT131181
301 212555 Bryan Edward Bryant b 1565 Gloucestershire d 1630 R-S4037
302 322646 Bryant Unknown Origin R-M269
Tot= 7
Haplogroup R-FT131181
dboyett
July 10, 2023 at 9:51 pm
I would simply like to see some solid proof that the Robert Bryan (as shown on my map) moved into NC by 1725… as you claim.
Do you claim the Robert Bryan (on my map) as your direct ancestor? You claim he had a son Elias… and you are a direct descendant…
Nextly… can you prove it? I’m not trying to be confrontational… that is just the nature of genealogy.. you have to back up what you say with proof. I would be pleased to add that to my notes as would many other folks tracing this line.
anderson1951
July 9, 2023 at 8:31 am
Richard,
If I might add a bit of info…
My sidekick, Jennifer from California, has chimed in after noticing your comments, that she too has studied the aforementioned Robert Bryan from Nansemond (in his time… it is now Southampton)…
She and I have been chronicling the Bryans of Nansemond/Isle of Wight…
Her notes:
Re; discussion about Robert Bryan
Some of my previous notes
Patents, v. 8, 1689-1695; Film # 008422927
121/464 (p. 92)
23 Oct 1690, Hodges Council the younger and Thomas Man, grant 200 ac, IOW county, beginning at Jno (Brown) corner, Kingsale Swamp. Transport of four persons: Thomas White, Jno Wator_, Robt Brian, Jno Barnard.
Patents, v. 9, 1697-1706; Film # 008570202
464/491 (p. 439)
25 Apr 1702, Robt Bryan, a minor son of Robert Bryan, late of Gloucester County, 57 ac. two rights paid for.
639/791 (p. 614)
20 Oct 1704, Robt Bryan, son of Robert Bryan, decd, grant 60 ac in Gloucester County, running along the line of Robert Bryan, decd. Transport of 2 persons
Patents, v. 10-11, 1710-1724; Film # 008140673
348/855 (p.331)
15 July 1717, Robert Bryan, 172 ac, Nansemond county. Grant by payment.
Deeds Vols. 4-5 1729-1741 Film # 007645142
460/641 (p.282)
23 Oct 1738, John Ingraham (wife Elizabeth) of the county of IOW to Robert Bryant of the same, 130 ac, Robert Bryant may be in actual possession of said land.
Deeds Vols. 6-7 1741-1747; Film # 007645143
303/585,
5 Oct 1744 Robert Bryan (w/consent of wife) to Thomas Sharp, 100 ac, Stephen Dardens line.
304/585, 5 Oct 1744 William Bryan (w/consent of wife) to Thomas Sharp, 100 ac, N side Nottoway River.
_____________________________
All of this is not to be dismissive in any way to your comments… it is merely to let you know that we (Myself and Jennifer) are a bit skeptical that Robert Bryan made his way to NC in the timespan you suggest.
Jennifer from California has a tendency to research much like a Bloodhound has a tendency to smell… just sayin’.
anderson1951
July 9, 2023 at 11:43 am
Soon the Bryan/Bryant lines may be able to prove a direct lineage from specific family branches and geographic areas. A small group of Bryan/Bryant males have started testing BigY that is accurate from Ancient YDNA to modern times. They just need to upgrade or test new members in the US and sponsor some testing in the UK. The UK jump seems to be the most difficult for many projects.
The Ballard BigY Tree that can tell the differnce in a Middle Plantation line and the Upper Parish Nansemond Ballard lines of Bitton. Results tell us we have a lot of errors in the Ancestry Trees. Also, many Autosomal matches cross the YDNA lines that are being studied for endogamy. A Virginia Colony descendant will likley have over 100K Autosomal matches in the Ancestry DNA database. More than most other Ancestry Members. The Bitton lines are unique for Nansemond, no other Ballard YDNA has been found to date.
The Bryant/Bryan from Bitton/Virginia Lines has only two BigY matches but that is a start. They have proven the line to 1400-1680 CE, so they need to test several more lines to bring the branches closer to current times. They have no International Kits as they start with the prefix “I”. The Bryant/Bryan Project has over 700 members, however, these Bryant/Bryan lines from Bitton/Virginia are a small UNIQUE sub-group and can be easily identified by the BigY results.
These two lines continue to match from ancient times and branch about 1400 CE +/- 280 yrs (Bitton or early Virginia)
503923 Bryan Richard Bryant 1630-80 Bitton, Glouc. to Va 1654 R-FT131181
545965 Bryan Edward Bryant, 1565-1630 Gloucestershire R-FT131181
https://discover.familytreedna.com/groups/bryan/tree?subgroups=307311
Both BigY lines have matched an Ancient YDNA sample taken near Oxford and carbon dated to the year 1013 CE. The research report indicated the grave appeared to be from Vikings. However the BigY indicates the YDNA origin to be Anglo/Saxon under the R-U106 population groups. A lot of research is available on this type of YDNA from early Britain. These Bryan/Bryant lines start at M269 and go over to U106 and BTW same U106 in three Ballard groups and a Boyett/Butler group. One tree indicates that John Ballard of Bitton’s mother was a Ballard, but the tree was not sourced. If this is true, church records may exist in the UK.
Hopefully any Bryant/Bryan males reading this post will check out the project. The older YDNA marker testing YDNA 12-111 is only accurate enough to place you in a general matching group, but the BigY takes it to the next step, going down to your own family branch is now possible. The BigY MUST have at least one match to make it from Ancient to closer branches. To reach your final family branch it will need at least one verified close male relative to also test BigY (father/son, uncle, cousin)
Best prices are for upgrade discounts and for a new test, the lab has about 4-6 sales a year. The testing time is 8-10 weeks in the lab and updates to your lines are free. The database updates every Friday to add new branches and make adjustments in the tree due to new test results. These DNA trees are ALIVE and moving.
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/bryan/about/background
The Ballard Tree:of Bitton:
https://discover.familytreedna.com/groups/ballard/tree?subgroups=20815
Has an Ancient YDNA Match: Lincoln 3044 was a man who lived between 1040 and 1070 CE during the Medieval Age and was found in the region now known as Lincoln Castle, Lincoln, Lincolnshire, England. He was associated with the Medieval Britain cultural group. Actually discovered beneath an old Anglo/Saxon Church that was found beneath the floor of Lincoln Castle!
dboyett
July 9, 2023 at 8:24 pm
Correction to above post, should read “John Ballard of Bitton’s mother was a Butler” The Butler YDNA line in the Virginia Colony is BALLARD of Nansemond/Bitton! Just another interesting surname with Ballard YDNA.
dboyett
July 10, 2023 at 8:12 am
To whoever is interested- I have a room full of documentation, I am nearly 80 and did most of my investigating the old fashion way-going through nc deeds in the basements of Raleigh , going into va. libraries, the library of nc univ. and trips to England. I know you want me to put it on a platter for all to see, but I prefer that you do the research. I have given you facts-now work on it. when i am gone I have left it all for my son to do whatever wants.
richard bryan
July 9, 2023 at 6:05 pm
Richard Bryan, have you or your son taken any DNA test. I am posting some information on the advanced BigY. Hopefully, it may be something of interest to you. The YDNA is used to track the direct male line back to ancient times and the Ancestry DNA is the Autosomal DNA used to connect your cousins, I would be interested in seeing what you have if you or your son would scan the pages. I would be glad to pay for any expenses. If you find the right scanner, just put the pages in the feeder, select PFD black and white, insert a thumb drive and press scan. Thanks for posting. You can follow this link and get my email address. https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ballard/about/background
dboyett
July 9, 2023 at 9:30 pm
To Mr. R. Bryan,
Researching for the dearly departed is one of my passions and I likely spend more time researching lines other than my own because sometimes, a hint towards a personal ancestral name appears.
The Bryan(t)s of IOW/Nancemond to NC, happen to be one of those other than my own lines, and I’ve delighted in contributing my research efforts towards gathering facts of the said Bryans.
Being that I reside in California, a trip to the basements of Raleigh NC, though alluring, is not practical, at least for me. Marc Anderson and I, left the “Basement” portion to our esteemed colleague and author, Mr. David Bryan Gammon.
Clearly, you put forth a labor of love to have amassed such a collection of Bryan documentation and your efforts should be immortalized.
JJThornton
July 10, 2023 at 9:51 am
How interesting, I found major differences in the BigY between Needham Bryant and the Bryan/Bryant lines of Nansemond/Bitton. They are not related since Ancient Times. I tracked each BigY results on SNP Tracker and clearly see a branch at U106 for these two family branches. Competely unrelated!
Details and BigY map here:
https://pbase.com/image/173797726
Needham Bryan b. 1744 R-FGC54223 (2 test)
Needham Bryan b. 1744 R-FGC54223
Edward Bryan b. 1565 R-FT131181
Richard Bryan b. 1690 R-FT131181
dboyett
July 9, 2023 at 9:51 pm
David, the birthdate of the Needham Bryant you cite is b. 1744. That is not the first Needham who came from Nansemond/IOW. As I know from my own history, one dalliance by the mother can change the whole picture. Is there an earlier DNA study for Needham?
anderson1951
July 10, 2023 at 4:53 am
I only see the two BigY lines, Needham Byrant of NC and Edward/Richard Bryant of Bitton. The Needham Bryant line seems to be heading in the right direction for earlier Needham grandfathers and both lines appear to only match that one surname for a valid Bryan/Bryant lines. The only thing is that the two are not related.
This is some records that match Needham Bryan/t, but I will try to make contact with the families who took the BigY test.
https://www.carolana.com/NC/Revolution/patriot_leaders_nc_needham_bryan.html
http://files.usgwarchives.net/nc/johnston/wills/nbryan.txt
https://www.geni.com/people/Capt-Needham-Bryan-Jr/6000000008807486785
I also have matching Autosomal DNA with Johnston Co NC Bryan/t families where the Boyette Plantation still survives. The Bryant Plantation was in Smithfield NC and the Boyette Plantation in Micro NC, only 10 miles apart and connected by branches to the Neuse River. A good connection for Bryan/t, Boyt and Ballard of IOW/Nansemond.
dboyett
July 10, 2023 at 8:04 am
Marc, I think this is who you are looking at with the two Needham Bryant BigY results. I notice the marriage of the 1690 Needham Bryant of the Smithfield Plantation to ANNE ROMBEAU. So I filtered all of my Autosomal matches (pages and pages) to see only the ones with ROMBEAU and at a good 12cM matches I had a small list of matches.
You and petcoslayer
5th – 8th Cousin | Paternal side< 1% shared DNA: 12 cM across 1 segments
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/60816228/person/46063665448/facts
Needham Bryan
BIRTH 11 FEB 1690 • Isle of Wight, Virginia, USA
DEATH 02 JUN 1770 • Lewiston Woodville, Bertie, North Carolina, United States
married
Annie Rombeau
BIRTH 1695 • Isle of Wight, Isle of Wight, Virginia, USA
DEATH 16 JAN 1730 • Snowfield, Bertie, North Carolina, United States
dboyett
July 10, 2023 at 8:56 am
According to the Bryan/T BigY Family tested members, they have 9 Needham Bryant’s all with the same YDNA. That looks correct to me also.
Now for your good stuff, LAND RECORDS. Recorded in research from the 1950’s, no less. So keep that in mind that they did it the olde fashion way which may not be as accurate now 75 years later.
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bryan-284
John Bryan
Born about 1626 in Milltown Malbay, Clare, Munster, Irelandmap
Son of Edward Bryan and [mother unknown]
Brother of Thomas Bryant, Rodger Bryant and Robert Bryant
Husband of Sarah (Berryman) Bryan — married about 1655 in Virginiamap
DESCENDANTS descendants
Father of William Bryan Sr, James Bryant Sr., Lewis Bryan and Joseph Bryan
Died about 1711 at about age 85 in Norfolk County, Virginiamap
John Bryan was born in 1626 in Milltown Malbay, Clare, Munster, Ireland and baptised 19 Feb 1626 in Milltown Malbay, Clare, Munster, Ireland. He died before 21 Sep 1711 in Norfolk Co VA.
Alternative Parents
John Bryan of Nansemond, Virginia married Sarah Berryman in 1645. Some of their children are:
Lewis Bryan,
William and
John.
Edward Bryan Some say he is their son.
Proof of Descendancy
What you find posted below is research that was done by Lindsay M. Brien and published in the DAR magazine in May 1956 on pages 509-510, also some of this same research was published in the National Genealogical Society publication in about 1960.
There are many deeds for John Bryan but this last one we will follow to his son William and to William’s son, NEEDHAM BRYAN. Look at the dates of the deeds as the land passed down from one son to the next.
Land Grant Office, Richmond, Va., Book 7, p. 133; To John Bryan 470 acres of land situated on the head of the branches of the Nazmond beginning at a pine near Robert Johnson’s land *** to line of Thomas Mason *** The said land being paid to said Bryan as follows: 150 acres being part of a patent for 350 acres granted said Bryan 8 Oct 1672, the remaining being waste land joining to the former by and for the transportation of seven persons into the Colony; dated 20 Apr. 1682.
Then, Isle of Wight, Great Book, Vol. 1, Part 1, p. 685; John Bryan, Sr. bearing date 20 Apr. 1682; John Bryan, Sr. of the Lower Parish of Isle of Wight to my son William Bryan of the same County and Parish for natural love and affection *** 200 acres of land being part of a patent to said John Bryan, Sr. bearing date 20 Apr. 1682. Date for this deed 23 December 1725 Isle of Wight Gt Bk. Vol. 2, 1715-1726. (This doesn’t make sense if John died in 1711. Could this be a date for registration of the deed? Is there an error here of some kind?)
Then, Isle of Wight, Book 2, p. 265; 25 Mar. 1713; Needham Bryan of the Upper Parish of nansemond and James Nilliby of Isle of Wight *** The said Needham Bryan for love and affection I bear my loving brother John Bryan *** 270 acres near the north east line dividing Nansemond and Isle of wight, beginning at a pine on the road at Edward Bryan’s line *** being part of a patent granted John Bryan dec’d bearing date 20 Apr. 1682.
The deed from William to his son Needham was probably recorded in Nansemond County and as the early records of that County were totally destroyed, it is not posible to complete the abstract, but these three deeds covering the same grant of date 20 Apr 1682, should be conclusive.[1]
Norfolk County was formed from Lower Norfolk County in 1691. Now extinct, Norfolk County was incorporated into the city of Chesapeake in 1963.
Norfolk County, Virginia. John died and gave a noncupative will on his deathbed. John Bryan Proof Land Grants. Probably registered in court proceedings, an inventory of his estate was ordered 21 Sept 1711 and filed 10 Oct 1711 with Isaac Barrington as Administrator. (Requested by a son living in NC? Or requested in Virginia?) No papers on file for this estate.[2]
His Son William Bryant
His son William Bryant married Alice Macland.[3] Alice MacLand was born about 1667 to John MacLand and Elizabeth.[4] William Bryan[5], (son of John Bryan) was born about 1655 and died about 1725[6]
William Bryant & Alice Macland had children:
Needham Bryan (1690-1770),
John Bryan (1692-1735),
William Bryan ( -1762),
Mary Bryan,
Alice Bryan.
Alice MacLand Bryan passed away about 1705.[7][8]
John Bryan Land
John Bryan began owning land in the British Colonies at least by 15 Oct 1652, Isle Of Wight County, Virginia. He continued owning land in the British Colonies until his death. See also: John Bryan Land Grants
Sources
↑ Lindsay M Brien, published in the DAR magazine in May 1956 on pages 509-510
↑ Manuscripts – North Carolina State Records, State Archives, Raleigh, NC, pg. 32-3.
↑ US and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900, Yates Publishing 2004.
↑ Wills and administrations of Isle of Wight County, Virginia, 1647-1800.
↑ US and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900, Yates Publishing 2004.
↑ “Descendants of John Bryan,” Joe Howell Bryan I, 19 Aug 1991, Manuscript 1997, in possession of Clyde E Bryan Jr, Atascadero, CA.
↑ “Descendants of John Bryan”, pg. 2, Joe Howell Bryan I, 19 August 1991.
↑ W Sturgis Bryan, Salisbury, North Carolina; 1985 Interview with Clyde E Bryan Jr.
End Notes
Edmund West, compiler: Family Data Collection – Marriages (Ancestry Online publication, 2001; APID 1,5774::350894. Marriage date: 1631, Marriage place: Clare.
dboyett
July 10, 2023 at 5:23 pm
I am leaning toward the alternate parents in Bitton or elsewhere besides Ireland. The BigY DNA results would be uncommon for Ireland, but not completely out of the question, just unusual. SNP Tracker does not take it into Ireland. This Bryan/T YDNA U106 goes away from the Irish YDNA (L21 & CTS4466) and follows a typical Anglo/Saxon signature (U106): They both start at M269 on the tree. Note that they are on opposite sides of the tree (L21 left branch Irish and U106 right branch Anglo Saxon).
https://pbase.com/daveb/image/171085621
dboyett
July 11, 2023 at 7:09 am
David, a bit of intrigue to get the juices flowing…
If you and I are each correct… then we have a clear “bastard” child that needs explaining. (or we can use the term “adopted” for gentile, squeamish folks…and certainly he could well be adopted).
If you note on this map near Bridger’s Creek on the Roanoke River you will clearly see a Needham Bryan with a patent dated 1721. That is twenty years before your BigY study of the Needham you cite.
https://andersonnc.files.wordpress.com/2023/06/1chowan-prec-working-2.pdf
If you continue down the map to just a bit north of the Tuscarora Indian reservation you will note where this “older” Needham Bryan settled.
anderson1951
July 10, 2023 at 8:30 am
David, I am highly skeptical that there ever was an actual “Anne Rombeau” connection that can be verified historically… you know, with actual evidence.
If anyone can show proof that Rombeau married Needham Bryan I would be very impressed! I am also impressed with the supposed death date of her of 16, Jan 1730, at Snowfield, Bertie, NC. That is very precise… but I think it is utter nonsense.
anderson1951
July 10, 2023 at 9:08 am
Same here, not sure how I missed these records. A long list of matching Bryant DNA is listed as Confirmed. Several that I now have contact information on and will reach out to them. Now considered a work in progress for me! Why do you always cause these problems?
Go to these Ancestry links and select “Search” and a list of sources, including DAR, SAR records will show up.
Sources on Annie Rombeau Bryant b. 1695 Isle of Wight
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/60816228/person/46063665447/facts
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/119074452/person/362009224118/facts
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rambeau-22
**************************************** BigY SURNAME MATCHES
Now for the BigY Surname, looks clear, no bastard sons showing up, only one that has been entered by Samuel Kirk of Star Trek or a Bryant who does not want to be identified. Either way, he is not a Kirk, he is a Bryant! All results branch off their common ancestor at R-FGC54212. I am working on a Time Tree from them.
R1b_A1A1A1 S19726 / S11601 / ZP30 / ZP144 / FT424364 Subgroup DYS716=27
287 541098 Bryan William Bryan b. 1655 and d. 1742 R-FGC63623
288 528892 Bryan Rigdon Bryan, b 1805 NC and d. 1864 R-FGC63623
289 MK64126 Bryan Unknown Origin R-FGC63623
R-M269>L23>L51>P310>L151>U106>Z2265>BY30097>Z18>S19726>S11601>ZP30>ZP144>FT424364>FGC54211>FGC54216>FGC54212>FGC63623
290 355556 Bryan Robert Bryan, 1832 – 1917 R-FT143186
291 887527 kirk jr Samuel Kirk B 1730s d1827 England R-FT143186
R-M269>L23>L51>P310>L151>U106>Z2265>BY30097>Z18>S19726>S11601>ZP30>ZP144>FT424364>FGC54211>FGC54216>FGC54212>FT143186
294 B10328 Bryan William Bryan Unknown Origin R-FGC54212
292 303001 Bryan Needham Bryan, b c1744 NC d 1773 NC R-FGC54223
293 303002 Bryan Needham Bryan, b c1744 NC d 1773 NC R-FGC54223
295 603683 Bryan Unknown Origin R-FGC54223
R-M269>L23>L51>P310>L151>U106>Z2265>BY30097>Z18*>S19726>S11601>ZP30>ZP144>FT424364>FGC54211>FGC54216>FGC54212>FGC54223
dboyett
July 10, 2023 at 9:57 am
David, I love ya Buddy… and smiling …
Don’t believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
Everyone hides the bastards. They are like the unwanted, redheaded step children… Bless their hearts, as my dear Grandmother used to say.
Ancestry.com should be avoided like the Plague and the Biden administration.
Commenters who will not back up their rumors and claims are bullsh*tters.
anderson1951
July 10, 2023 at 10:10 am
Bryant BigY Time Line: Note all the lines coming off the Needham Bryan/t common ancestor at FGC54212, then branching to family lines in IOW and NC (FGC63623, FT143186 and FGC54223) Note the location of FGC54212 and then the three branches of interest (FGC63623, FT143186 and FGC54223).
Does not work well on a phone, you will need a computer and monitor.
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-FGC54212/tree
dboyett
July 10, 2023 at 10:18 am
“Why do you always cause these problems?”
lol, welcome to the club!
JJThornton
July 10, 2023 at 10:39 am
My quest for the Bitton/Nansemond Line Continues! If this is anything like the Ballard BigY, this might not be it. This Bryan/T may have started on the North Shore not South in IOW/Nansemond. Their information has not included any Bitton that I have seen (except the “some say” they are related, but it is certainly a lot to look at. We know the two lines, this one and the one with Edward and Richard Bryan of Bitton do not match, so this excercise may be able to rule one out.
Hopefully we will have a Bryant Family Member here very soon. The two BigY matches come from cousins and they have extensive research, lets try no to scare them off before looking at what they have. I have sent them a message to contact me first. They share the same Wiki Tree, check it out, oldest known ancestor: Edward Bryan b. 1590. That seldom works out without YDNA matches in the UK, but I am willing to take a look. They do have a unique BigY Signature so a UK match would be like a home run for them.
https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:DNATests&u=16034219&id=8
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bryan-1516
Larry Bryan Find Relationship : Family Tree DNA Y-DNA Test 111 markers, haplogroup R-FGC63623, FTDNA kit #528892, MitoYDNA ID T12334 [compare] [test details]
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bryan-1516
Lawrence Bryan Find Relationship : Family Tree DNA Y-DNA Test 111 markers, haplogroup R-FGC54212, FTDNA kit #977532 [test details]
dboyett
July 10, 2023 at 11:33 am
DNA Descendants View for Edward Bryan from the YDNA test by family.
https://www.wikitree.com/treewidget/Bryan-1516/890
dboyett
July 10, 2023 at 4:38 pm
From Family Records, link also has an approved SAR application attachment. Other sources listed below. Notice all of the Ancestry DNA Matches in the right column. I could add my name there.
Anne (Rambeau) Bryan
Anne Bryan formerly Rambeau
Born about 1 Jun 1692 in Isle of Wight, Virginia
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rambeau-22
ANCESTORS ancestors
Daughter of Pierre Quintiane Rambeau and [mother unknown]
Biography
Anne Rambeau (Rombeau) was born circa 1 Jun 1692, most likely in Isle of Wight County in the Colony of Virginia. She married Needham Bryan I 16 Nov 1711 in Isle of Wight County, prior to the family moving in 1722 to Bertie County in the Colony of North Carolina.[1][2]
Anne and Needham had at least three children:
Rachel, 10 Jun 1723 – 1 Nov 1780, married William Whitfield
William, 31 Oct 1724 – 1785, married Elizabeth Smith
Needham II, 31 Oct 1726 – 1784, married Nancy Smith [3][4]
Anne died circa 16 Jan 1730 in Bertie County in the Colony of North Carolina. She is presumably buried in the Bryan Family Cemetery on land where Snowfield Plantation once stood in Bertie County, NC. [2][5]
Sources
↑ Alabama, Surname Files Expanded, 1702–1981, Alabama Department of Archives and History; Montgomery, AL; Alabama Surname Files; Box or Film Number: M84.0323, Link
↑ 2.0 2.1 Armstrong, Zella, Notable Southern Families: Vol II, Genealogical Publishing Co Inc, Baltimore, MD, 1993, 1887, pg.41, Link
↑ U.S., Sons of the American Revolution Membership Applications, 1889-1970, Volume: 260, https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/3070208/person/182048078372/facts
↑ North Carolina Hist. Gen. Reg., Vol 1 (1900), quarterly issues 1-4 bound: issue 4 (October), page 577, Link
↑ Find A Grave: Memorial #72777646 accessed 04 June 2021, memorial page for Anne “Annie” Rambeau Bryan (Jun 1692–16 Jan 1730), citing Bryan Family Cemetery, Lewiston Woodville, Bertie County, North Carolina, USA; Maintained by Jeff Hubbard. No tombstone photo. Her page lists and has links to her spouse, children.
The North Carolina historical and genealogical register
dboyett
July 10, 2023 at 4:52 pm
Marc, “Anne Rombeau” really did exist with that death date. Susan Bryan Martin Capehart (1815-1882) has a volume of “Family Records of Marriages, Births and Deaths of the Relations and connections of Susan Martin Capehart and George Washington Capehart” in the Capehart Papers at Wilson Library at UNC-CH. See this scan
https://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/01ddd/id/464321/rec/5
My impression is she actually visited the graveyards where much of the information was collected, probably in the 1840’s.
Gregory Tyler
October 1, 2025 at 9:30 am
Outstanding to see some proof!…That settles a big dispute
Thank you for sharing.
anderson1951
October 1, 2025 at 10:38 am
To-Boyette-My kit #N36204-the early Genographic Project. I’m thinking that I did this in early 2000’s-Next time my son visits I’ll get him to involve us both in the more advanced study.
richard bryan
July 11, 2023 at 7:36 am
Richard, I located your kit at Family Tree DNA. Do you have the password so you can login and check for matches? They now have you as R-M269 and you tested 12 markers. You will likely have a lot of matches at this level, but we can see if any of your matches have taken the advanced BigY that we need. We can also see what surnames you match. Again at 12 markers you will likely have many different surnames as you are looking back all the way to R-M269 prior to surnames. You can see on this chart your position on the tree at M269 (top ancient position). To get down the tree to you, we need the BigY numbers. https://pbase.com/daveb/image/171085621
If you do not know your password, but still have your same email address that is connected to your account, you can select “forgot password” and a new one will be sent to that email address. If that does not work then you have to call the lab at 713-868-1438 and confirm who you are with a mailing address.
I also sent you a message on Ancestry with my email address so we can contact directly. I would like to review your matches as see if we can locate any closely related males who have taken a higher resolution test.
https://www.familytreedna.com/sign-in
78 N36204 Bryan bryan R-M269
Enter kit number and password
If you get in the database, I will send you another link.
My email address is also on this link as Ballard Project Admin:
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ballard/about/background
Email me.
dboyett
July 11, 2023 at 8:53 am